Conversations with the Enemy

Debate With Those Who Want Israel Gone is Intensified by the War

Defamation in the Name of Human Rights

The recent scandal over the decision by Ottawa’s Capital Pride Organization to turn its events into a platform for pro-Hamas propaganda has led us into some intense online discussion. The war has energized and emboldened our enemies as many of us are all too aware. Debating with people who have adopted the pro-Hamas line can be instructive, as it helps to clarify the particular ways in which the reality inhabited by our enemies differs from the very different world supporters of Israel call home. Hearing what our opponents say in public, can help us to understand the harm that is being done due to distorted news coverage, and how the peculiar contemporary idea of “human rights” prevents people from thinking in a sensible way about the war in Gaza.

With the hope to promote that sort of insight, we will review some discussions that transpired on line in the past week or two.

On August 13, Mira Sucharov posted a comment about the Capital Pride statement on the Gaza war. Mira is a Professor of Political Science at Carleton University, a fellow congregant at my Ottawa synagogue, and a long time interlocutor of mine in the debate about Israel. The post attracted a fair amount of reaction, including from this writer and I will share some of that discussion and what I think we can learn from it.

For those who haven’t read the Capital Pride Statement, it can be found here: Capital Pride Statement in Solidarity with Palestine. The statement begins with some comments about harm to civilians on both sides, in an effort to sound even handed. This paragraph might reassure some readers that Pride are still dedicated to their core mission of welcoming everyone

We are committed to creating spaces where all queer and trans people feel safe to celebrate Pride together. To that end, we are deeply concerned by the rising tide of antisemitism and Islamophobia we are witnessing here in Canada. As a community facing rising levels of hate-motivated crimes, we know all too well how hate erodes our security. In this climate, we reaffirm that intolerance has no place in our events.

Having nodded to inclusion, they proceed to lay out an account of the war which places all blame for ongoing violence on Israel and they announce plans to make controversial statements at every event guaranteed to make Jews and supporters of Israel feel unwelcome. They do this, ironically in the name of being sensitive to the impact of the war on members of the Ottawa community.

For a detailed critique of the Pride statement see our earlier article by Fred Litwin:

In response to the Statement Mira Sucharov posted the following on Facebook:

The Pride org here in Ottawa (Capital Pride) just issued a statement that has led to lots of hand-wringing among some Jews/Israel boosters. I’ve now read it carefully and think that it’s balanced and wise and important. It decries violence against all civilians including singling out the horrors of Oct 7. It calls out Islamophobia and antisemitism. It calls for an end to the genocidal campaign of IDF violence against Palestinians. It calls out the disgusting use of pride flags in the IDF’s terrorizing campaign. (See photos they link to.) It nods to the main non-violent mode of protest around (the BDS resources). Pride, like all anti-oppression movements/groups/impulses is wise to think about homophobia in the context of other struggles, and to keep a strategy of non-violence (whatever you think of BDS, it rejects violence) front and center. Link to statement in first comment.

I happened to be on line when Mira’s comment went up and was one of the first to respond. In the immediate aftermath of the October 7 invasion, which many have said meets the definition of genocide, Mira had posted advising those on both sides using the word genocide to tone it down. Remembering this, I wrote:

Like you, the pride statement takes the outrageous claim that Israel is committing genocide as fact.

Early in the war, when much more plausible claims of genocide were made against Hamas, you urged everyone to tone down their language.

What changed?

Mira’s response was to ignore my question about her own words and instead to focus on the language in the pride statement:

David Roytenberg not true. They said what is factual, which is that there is a “plausible risk of genocide”.

This was partly true, although this phrase was a misleading quotation of the language used by the International Court of Justice in its initial ruling. The actual language in the court ruling was this:

“In the Court’s view, the facts and circumstances mentioned above are sufficient to conclude that at least some of the rights and claims by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible.”

This does not mean that genocide is happening. It doesn’t even mean that genocide is probably happening. All it means is that some of South Africa’s claims, if proven true might lead to genocide.

On that basis, the court ordered Israel to conduct itself in such a way as to avoid genocide. This was uncontroversial and even the Israeli judge voted for it. Since Israel conducts itself under a strict code of conduct designed to avoid war crimes, this was ordering Israel to conduct itself lawfully, which Israel maintains it was and is doing.

However Mira’s response saying I was wrong, ignored the fact that the statement goes on to state that Pride will be:

• Recognizing the ongoing genocide against Palestinians in opening remarks at 2024 Capital Pride Festival Signature Events;

So the statement does in fact say that Israel is committing genocide. This was pointed out by another participant in the thread. In response to that comment Mira wrote:

… true. I think that’s fine though. If I were a Palestinian civilian in Gaza I would welcome any bit of solidarity to staunch the bloodletting. It has gotten to revolting levels.

So calling the Israeli campaign in Gaza genocide, which Pride in fact does and which Mira also does in her post, is justifiable because of “solidarity”.

The other poster’s response echoed my own thoughts on whether this was “fine”.

Mira Sucharov "Fine"?? If you acknowledge that, at all their signature events, Pride will be calling what is happening a genocide, even though it has not been ruled as a genocide, how can you just say that that is "fine"? Not a rhetorical question.

The conversation then took a horrifying turn:

In response to Mira’s comment about showing solidarity another person chimed in with this question:

Mira Sucharov what if you were a Zionist Jew? Would you welcome a misleading exclusionary statement about your safety based on your beliefs? Would you consider Pride a safe space, if you were a Zionist Jew?

Mira’s response to this was truly chilling:

Mira Sucharov

… depends on your definition of Zionist

… relatedly, if one were a white supremacist, then no, Pride would not be a safe space for that person’s beliefs because Pride has a general anti-oppression stance. None of that is new. So on Zionism, depends on how you define it.

So the suggestion that a Zionist might not feel welcome at Pride given the rhetoric in their statement was received with the suggestion that Zionism is comparable to white supremacy. And who would care whether a white supremacist felt welcome at Pride?

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At the beginning of the war, there was a daily procession of Palestinians on the national news, all of whom referred to Israeli genocide in Gaza. Their stories were about family members in Gaza killed and hurt as a result of the war. This appeared to be aimed at “centering Palestinian voices” and none of the interviewers challenged the use of the term genocide, or anything else that their guests said about what was happening in Gaza.

The daily barrage left me feeling personally buried under a tsunami of defamation. Sure enough, the treatment of Israeli genocide as an accepted fact spread rapidly and became a standard feature of every critical comment I read on line. When I challenged it, the most common reaction was that something was wrong with me, that I had lost my humanity. To suggest that it was not happening wasn’t just a mistake. It was a sign of moral depravity.

This idea articulated by Mira that it was fine to talk about genocide because it showed solidarity with Palestinians seemed to me to confirm that for our enemies, the truth doesn’t seem to matter as much as aligning yourself with the right side in the war. It is sufficient that Palestinians are saying it. Repeating the claim is the least we can do to support suffering Palestinians.

But the deluge of accusations of genocide here in Canada does nothing to help a Palestinian trapped in the middle of the war in Gaza. It does however have an impact on Canadian Jews. From an upsurge of bullying in schools to gunshots fired into Jewish schools in Toronto and Montreal, along with verbally aggressive demonstrators marching through Jewish neighbourhoods, the incessant accusation that Israel is committing genocide has real consequences for Canadian Jews.

Given this, saying that it’s OK to repeat unproven claims of genocide as though they are true, all in the name of Palestine solidarity, seems to imply that it’s OK to endanger Jews in order to demonstrate support for Palestinians. That is exactly what we have been seeing people do in this country for the past 11 months.

The Jews who spoke out with anger or anguish against the Pride statement have watched all year as anti-Jewish statements and actions have mushroomed in this country, and that is why they reacted so strongly.

In response to the outcry from the Jewish community and our allies, a number of groups have withdrawn from Pride to show that solidarity with Ottawa Jews is still important, and that harming Jews in the name of Palestine solidarity is not OK. As we see from Mira’s comments above, not everyone agrees.

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For some, expressions of solidarity with Ottawa Jews have been met with contempt and derision. The idea that Jews are feeling endangered is treated as laughable. Anyone who dares to challenge the pro-Hamas narrative which has dominated our broadcast news over the months since the beginning of the war is met with outrage.

Ottawa’s Mayor Mark Sutcliffe was among the first to announce that he would not march in Pride this year, due to the impact the statement by Capital Pride was having on Ottawa’s Jews. This is what he wrote in his own post on Facebook

Ottawa is a kind and welcoming city where everyone should feel included. I'm disappointed that despite conversations with the Jewish community, the board of Capital Pride has chosen to stand behind its original statement that caused significant hurt and distress for many members of the Jewish community. This decision by the board, days before the start of Pride, has unfortunately created an atmosphere where many now do not feel welcome to participate. Pride has always been and should continue to be a celebration of diversity and inclusion where no one feels excluded for who they are. I encourage the board of Capital Pride to take steps to ensure no one feels excluded this year.

It's important to continue to support the 2SLGBTQ+ community and defend the values of equity and inclusion that the Pride movement has always stood for. I will be attending Pride activities in the days ahead but unless there is a change in approach, I will not be participating in events organized by Capital Pride this year.

While Mayor Sutcliffe said that this was a personal decision, the City of Ottawa followed up a couple of days later with its own decision not to participate.

The response to the mayor’s statement opened up another discussion which again raises the question whether the truth matters when discussing Israel’s war in Gaza. Because this article is already quite long we will defer this discussion to our next article.

If you are a paid subscriber, please share your own thoughts in the comments, on the impact the pride statement is having on you or those you care about.

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As this article is about to be published, the list of those who have announced that they are not attending pride continues to grow. The Jewish community does have allies.

Image: List of organizations that have announced they won’t participate in Capital Pride in solidarity with Ottawa’s Jewish Community —-Source: Ottawa Against Antisemitism

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In spite of great optimism expressed by the US over the prospects for a hostage deal and ceasefire and the continued support of Israel’s government for the proposal, the continued intransigence of Hamas makes it unlikely that a deal is in the offing. Yesterday, the bodies of six hostages were found hidden in a tunnel in Khan Younis. Autopsies indicated that all had been murdered by their captors.

Hezbollah has been escalating its attacks and Israel has been inflicting significant damage in response. From Iran, there are stories that there are no plans to do anything.

We continue to pray for the hostages and for a decisive victory that will put an end to the malignant rule of Hamas over the Palestinians.

We are happy to report that Canadian Zionist Forum now has over 750 subscribers. Thank you to everyone for your continued interest and support.